I.E. With a charge of only 3.1 grains of Winchester 231 powder, velocities run around 750 to 800 fps with good accuracy and mild recoil. Pasted as rich text. Lucky me. Bought my small handed wife a 642. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved ! Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. Good job on you! I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. IIRC, I used 4.5 gr of Bullseye under a 125 gr lead bullet for a light plinker, and 5.6 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr wadcutter (~815 fps, 4" bbl, probably around 750 fps out of a snub). (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. I have several manuals and some say that this load is a low +p, some say it is not, but it is very accurate. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. The quality of the loads equals a bargain. .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. Hornady 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. She ran two cylinders of 100 grain wad cutters and gave it back to me. Its hard to find those swaged SWCs and hollow point bullets anyone; it seems everyone is only interested in hard cast for velocity and penetration. Im a big fan of .32 revolvers, I do think they are a superior choice for carrying and shooting than .38 is, but that doesnt mean I think .38 or .357 sucks, I just dont think theyre the best choices for a small frame revolver. This. This would be for plinking for my wife's ~3" Rossi, so something light and fun to shoot would be great. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). The reason I love the .38 SPL so much is because its so elastic in function. Hodgdon's Basic Reloading Manual, (The free one, available for the asking. All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special. Very versatile cartridge. Use data for weight. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. Were all familiar with the old adage, Never bring a knife to a gunfight. And while we should, The active shooter is a relatively new phenomenon in the grand scheme of things. In one or two strokes, the bullet is formed ready for dip lubing. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. : 13,300 16,800 Starting Powder: 6.0 gr Starting Velocity: 1,266 SWC, 160 gr. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. Anyone that uses a J frame S&W should seriously think about swapping grips, and finding which set works for them. What are YOU shooting? Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes I dont bother polishing my .38 brass because I just dont let it fall in the mud or dirt. 2 and No. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. Most DNR (Do Not Reduce) loads are well over 900-fps. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. (Same issue found with a 12 oz. I've tried Berry's plated as well as Remington. I estimate that the price for each of the three loads runs between $7 and $8 per box of 50. The Pistol a Smith and Wesson model 27-2 The goal is two fold. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. Reloading supplies and load recipes are available everywhere. In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. I prefer the slower burning Unique, and I also use it for .357 magnum, just more of it. http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp. The best part about this is that not only do you never really lose your fired cases, but you they are always in great condition. I have used everything from simple lead to the most advanced machined copper bullets and found them all to be extraordinarily easy to load and shoot. Agree 100% since I reload and shoot it since years, lost count. I favor the appearance of the C/T load and find it slightly easier to grab and orient in the loading process. BrianEnos.com want me to write up an article about 3d printed .38 special bullets that Ive been working? I used to reload .38s and .357s with 158 grain LSWC bullets over 4.3 and 6.5 grains of Unique. I am aware of the plated bullet limitations on BE accuracy and am more interested in them for their "plinkability". Clear editor. Even though the gun was chambered for .357 Magnum, I plinked and practiced with a lot of .38s over the years. 3.) He has taught and been responsible for numerous advanced skills and weapons courses within multiple organizations. When using a 158 gr. I do this for my .357s but this article is about .38 Special loads. defensive ammo. My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. 100 except where otherwise noted in "remarks" Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. This Cast Reloading Bullet feeds great in automatics and has excellent accuracy in both the 9mm and 38 Super. Recoil in that gun is less than most 45 ACP 1911s I have shot, and its still got around 500-600ft lbs of energy which is more than enough for feral hogs around the ranch back home. Your link has been automatically embedded. Powered by Invision Community, 125 grain plated flat point in 38 Special. These types of guns are not as strong as more modern solid frame revolvers. You are absolutely correct. Would you like to react to this message? I wanted a good carry gun that was light and reliable, so I decided that the .38 would fit and I just went with it. No offense sir but those charges look low for Unique. So I'd think you should find a decent load for short line at about 700 Fps and for the long line at about 800. JHP, (WC= WadCutter, SWC= Semi-WadCutter, HP= Hollow Point, RN= Round Nose), (JHP= Jacketed Hollow Point and if GC indicated, means Gas Check at bottom of lead bullet). Robert Frost. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. Hi. Youre describing Remington Multiball ammunition (R357MB)- I used to carry that stuff decades ago. I load rounds for my wife to shoot @ Win 231 4.0 to 4.3 gr. A gun on you always works better than the gun left at home. Upload or insert images from URL. When I teach other people the basics of reloading, I teach them on the .38 SPL. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. 38 Special, all bullet weights Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source 110gr JHP! I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. Interesting. For those who have issues using auto pistils, due ti arthritis or other medical issues with the hands an LCR or 642 is a great choice. The load you use will be up to your gun. As a result, Ive been able to spend far more time practicing with it rather than fussing with it. For best accuracy in slow fire shooting, you may want to raise gun before every shot. (For those who would. As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. S&W M637-2 2" barrel I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. (Inceptor) Diameter: 0.357" Powder: CFE Pistol (Hodgdon) Primer: WIN WSP Case: WIN Trim Length: 1.145" C.O.L. Recoil is subjective and I feel no difference between that and an 750-775 fps load. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. Your email address will not be published. Shot placement is just as important if not more. That one Ill keep. Soft shooting. Hornady It'll look funky, but it will shoot. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set. each bullet is different for oal due to a crimp groove on most. Like the author said, I consider it a garbage disposal round as you can load it with almost anything with good results. If youre recoil averse (and dont have a disability of some kind), its because you havent shot it enough. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. Thanks to all for the info. Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. I did 400 rounds in one afternoon on my Hornady progressive. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. Thats what the Cavalry Board asked for over a century ago, and thats what weve got. I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. 2.7 GR WST IS TOO LIGHT FOR THE 50 YD LINE. Posted March 19, 2015. Easiest way is casting lines and a sprue mark on nose or base. Good point Len. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. I would add that the firearm mentioned, a Model 27 S&W revolver is a very durable gun, intended for the hotter loading of .357 Magnum. My other son fired one shot and handed it back. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. That blunt-ended bullet cut a clean hole all the way through whatever its modest velocity allowed it to penetrate. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Horrible 5-12" groups at 25 yds. Wes, SASS Wire rules prohibit posting specific load data on the forum, but it can be passed along via private message or email. NULLI SECUNDUS. Great gun with the best factory double action trigger Ive ever shot. Now, you have to go to a range or have a membership and pay to fill the backstop with lead. I simply took mixed brass and ran em through the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP press with the bare minimum preparation. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. I soon traded off a Colt Frontier Scout .22 LR for an S&W Model 15 and happily chased all manner of small game and landfill targets with my stash of wadcutters. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. I have a few 30-30 cases modified to shoot singles with a very light load. I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. A Tyler T grip would have helped here, but is incompatible w/ factory grips. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. I just dont like practicing with it. I use 2.8-3.0 grains of Bullseye or AA#2 with 158 gr. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. I found it to be a nice blend of accuracy, soft recoil, and sure functioning, with enough spice behind it to reliably topple steel targets. revolver, with a 3 barrel, and 4 6 oz. But I would only be caught dead with one in my hands if I had to use one for self defense (pun intended). Good thing I didn't go with the original powder charge I intended to use. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. Recoil is the good kind that reminds the shooter handguns are serious tools but without eliciting a flinch. 10,870. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. Hodgdons Clays, International, Universal and HP38 are good choices. Just depends on what kinds of loads you plan to shoot. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. I have experimented with both of Hornadys 200-grain semiwadcutters in this load: the more button-nosed SWC and the longer Combat/Target (C/T) version. Read my very long thread about "DR loads that don't suck". Bonus is that dont need magnum Primers for these reloads. I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up. Click there and go to the load data lookup section . 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds. Zero 158 grain swaged SWC, Starline brass, Winchester or Federal primer, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimp. WST is a good powder for a very specialized load. 357 LCR in 3 inch variant. 7, No. The .38 Special remains very popular for personal protection and Michelle Hamilton shares her thoughts on the top loads for concealed carry, like this 158-grain SWCHP FBI Load, based on her testing. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. My sq. It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. Classic loads are economical. I here from quite a few that 3.5 gr of bullseye is a good load for 158 gr lead Bullets for bullseye shooting. 750-850fps. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. Lord only knows how many cartridge cases I hammered with a plastic mallet into that Lee, it had to be thousands. I have some W231 that I use for my .38 super. Ive been reloading and shooting for over 40 years and love revolvers but 90% of the time my carry gun is a Sig 365 with a 12 round mag and a spare. I thought about trying 2.5 gr. Prefer to use the CT model 305 laser grips in lieu of S&W grips. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. Some use powders dispersed in liquids, some use electrostatic guns to spray dry powder on their bullets. The 158 gr cast plain base accuracy load was 4.0 gr 231 which gave 837 Fps and 15,900 psi. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. I can not be held responsible for. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. What overal length of the cartridge? I stopped handloading around 1985, so Im not certain how much technology has changed in that area, but in general it sounds like our experiences are similar. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. They are reliable accurate and deadly. Did you cross post the bullet weight? Accurate's No. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. Jacketed bullets are legal for DR, as long as they are 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. These have a good profile- longer at the top where the middle finger rides, and shorter where the pinkie rests. for 38 special .38 J frame.) I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. SWC+GC, 10. On 7/4/2018 at 11:57 AM, Bill Sahlberg said: There is nothing more accurate at PPC than 148 gr8 HBWC (lead) using 2.8 gr of 231 and a tight crimp with Starline 38 Special brass & a Federal Small pistol primer. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. My Hornady 11th edition shows this for 38 Special 158 gr lead RN, LSWCHP and LSWC. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! . I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. Easy to reload and it started my reloading experience. * Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. What I have found most remarkable is how well some pistols that typically fling wide groups have clustered the semiwadcutters. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye MV 775 fps ME 210 ft./lbs. 38 special is a great cartridge. The range (understandably) insisted you shoot their ammunition and the mildest they had was 158 grain LRN standard pressure. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. Do not use anything but light loads and lead bullets in these older revolvers. 110gr JHP! Load cut these cards at five yards out of this Model 15. The bullets are seated flush in the case. Never got around to trying the T grips. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. Nothing, they dont need any. 4.0 gr. Both are excellent fight stoppers. All newly manufactured .38 Special revolvers must be proof tested to the same higher proof . with #2 Lyman duplicate. Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. But not too tough. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. There is a difference in the manufacturing process of swaged bullets. : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. The key to those rounds, in spite of their paltry muzzle velocity of something like 825 feet per second out of a snubbie, is their diameter and mass: they will make significant diameter holes and penetrate respectably in attackers. Don't know of any bullets like that. Maybe its just my age, but I may never shoot a 38 again after discovering the 32. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 In 38/357 they don't list 105 gr bullets, but the do list 90's and 125's. Easy enough to extrapolate for a 105 grain . 8.) So if you find a "lead" load it is also a plated load. Alliant listed 3.6 gr Bullseye as maximum (15000 psi) in 38 Special and 3.8 as max in 38 Special PLUS P (17000 psi) with 158 LSWC bullets. butt 686 shipped w/ Hogue monogrips, discarded immediately due to pronounced finger grooves. YMMV. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? Your experience is definitely motivation for me to give my J-frame more range time! of Bullseye with Lee's 125gr RN mold in a 38 special with so-so accuracy.